Faith That Withstood the Flames

Before I entered full-time ministry as a pastor, I was often preached to about the Waldenses. Unbeknownst to me at the time, many who shared their story—along with others mentioned in The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll—were Baptist Briders. This group remained hidden from me for many years, only becoming visible through the many doctrinal clashes we later had.

What I study from the bible differs greatly in application from theirs. Their Constitution reads the same, but its in the application (their walk) where the difference become clear—they are described by some Baptist as near cultish.

I had come to believe while following The Trail of Blood, that the Waldenses had become distinct.

At the very close of his book, he says this—In later centuries this designation came to be a regular name, applied to a distinct group. They were simply called "Ana-Baptists" and gradually all other names were dropped... the word "ana" was beginning to be left off, and they were simply called "Baptists."

Briders believe in an unbroken line of succession, which means in-order for this statement to be TRUE, then the Waldenses according to p.55 by today's standards would be called Baptist and the Waldenses NAME no longer active.

Upon visiting David Cloud's website—wayoflife.org I came across a long list of church history which I decidedly purchased. Way of Life's Baptist/Waldensian History Library—[Link]

• A Concise History of the Baptists - Orchard

• A History of the English Baptists - Ivimey

• A History of the Welsh Baptists - Davis

• Annals of the English Bible - Anderson

• Baptist History - Cramp

• Bye-Paths of Baptist History - Goadby

• Foxe's Book of Martyrs (Abridged) - Foxe

• History of German Baptist Brethren - Brumbaugh

• History of Protestantism - Wylie

• History of the Baptist of Virginia

• History of the Baptists - Armitage

• History of the Baptists - John Christian

• History of the Baptists in America - Benedict

• History of the Baptists of New England - Backus

• History of the Christian Church - Jones

• History of the Christians of the Alps - Perrin

• History of the Dontatists

• History of the English General Baptists - Taylor

• History of the Inquisition in Spain - McCrie

• History of the Papacy - Wylie

• History of the Waldenses - Wylie

• Memorials of Baptist Martyrs - Brown

• Miller's Church History - Miller

• Story of the Baptists in All Ages - Cook

• The Albigenses - Allix

• The Bogomils of Bulgaria and Bosnia - Brockett

• The Early English Baptists - Evans

• The Evils of Infant Baptism - Howell

• The Origin of the Baptists - Ford

• The Waldenses - Allix

I have no issues with history in seeing the Waldenses as part of Baptist history, that's wonderful. Its another thing to suggest that the Waldenses later became Baptist. And here is why—

In 2015, the late Pope Francis visits the Waldensians to apologise for the persecution they underwent during the period between 1300-1600.

How is that possible if the Waldensians were meant to have disappeared?

Studying the history of the Waldenses, I discovered this:

1. They did experience great persecution at the hands of other churches

2. Their numbers did go down

3. However, in 1690—the Waldenses entered a time of peace and although heavily taxed. They won the heart of believers and Queen Mary II of England of whom gave royal funds and they were able to start rebuilding.

Now, in this particular book there is no mention of the Waldenses ever becoming Baptist, just that they were rebuilding (end).

So has J.M. CARROLL pulled the wool over our eyes in his desire as a Landmarker to see Baptist history come to light?

Remember, he could only find Catholic and Protestant history, where would he find Baptist history.

The Waldenses website with 25K members and 45K members worldwide.

I’d estimate there are approximately 500 Baptist members across all Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) churches in New Zealand.

And a large portion of IFB churches in NZ are Briders.

So to clear this matter up, I decided to send an email to the Waldenses in Italy to see whether they can shed some light on J.M. CARROLL's book—is it TRUTH or heresy.

In any case, there is 300 years missing from the unbroken line of successionism. It cannot be true, if p.55 can be refuted.

So where did the 300 years go?

INFOGRAPHIC: 300 years vanished

The Waldenses Testimony

With over 300 years of intense persecution. I could understand why the Baptist would want to adopt the faith of the Waldenses. Their account of persecution melted the hearts surrounding them.

When persecution came, they ran into the mountains, carrying their infants, and elderly on their backs.

Their lives were marked not by practicality, but by persecution.

So what if the Briders misuse history?

The Baptist are Baptist because of their Baptist Distinctives. As a Baptist the Bible is our only rule of faith and practice.

Hence, the hypocrisy for Briders, is that history dictates their belief in the bible, e.g. successionism.

If the Bible is their only rule of faith and practice, than successionism does not matter.

Issues:

1. They do not follow the Baptist Distinctives.

2. They distort the truth of the bible to suit their ideals of successionism.

3. The Bible is not their only rule of faith and practice since history plays a significant role in their faith.

What is the end goal?

To convert another Baptist to —

• Landmarksim/Successionism

Here is a summary for now

1. The Waldenses were evident before the Reformation period

2. Protestants claim the Waldenses as forerunners of the Reformation

3. Baptists (esp. Landmarkers or successionist Baptists) view the Waldenses as part of an unbroken line of TRUE New Testament Churches.

4. The Waldenses of the 21st Century claim to be the same Waldenses of 1300+ (they kep the same identity??)

5. J.M. CARROLL states on p.55—The Trail of Blood... that all groups, including the Waldenses came under a single identity, e.g. Ana-Baptist that then transitioned to Baptist would be contrary to Pt.4

Questions

1. Who exactly are the Waldenses?

2. And who do they belong to? Protestants, Baptist or the 21st Century Waldenses.

References

1. The History of the Waldenses, Muston (TTB, not found in wayoflife.org)

2. The History of Baptists, Backus (TTB, not found in wayoflife.org)

3. The Ancient Waldenses and Albigenses, Faber (TTB, not found in wayoflife.org)

4. The History of the Waldenses of Italy, Combs (TTB, not found in wayoflife.org)

5. History of the Waldenses, Wylie

6. The Waldenses - Allix